Oh, god. All of liberal America has gone off on an individual man date. What are you doing in there, Johnny?
And personally I never even found John Holmes that attractive.
At least now we won't hear anymore talk about how the next election is the most important ever.
thank God, now I can go ahead and get cancer.
So long, dental plan!
Damn, I was hoping for another Ioz holiday in the tradition of Scott Brown Day.
My significant other is highly-placed at a certain hopsital in a certain university medial center, M'sieur, and although she and the rest of that community generally vote Democratic because it keeps the NIH/NSG spigot on, she told me today that her community will suffer due to lower rates.Does your Dad honcho a university or private hospital? If the former, what does he think about this? Does he expect rates to be lowered ?
I for one wish the healthcare system was more similar to Canada's. Not the same as (because frankly, as nice as it is, it is still imperfect), but more similar to. I don't understand why people are so excited over "Obamacare". Did we just suddenly get universal healthcare coverage for everyone? No? Then let me go back to sleep, kthx.
Yo momma so Constitutional, it take a supermajority to get her ass outta Bickford's.
Just another few layers of incomprehensible paperwork that I will never deal with because life is too short for that shit.Sure I may be entitled to government handouts hiding in some labyrinth, technically and nominally; but who has the wherewithal to perform the necessary rituals and incantations to access them? Am I the only one who curls up in a ball of despair when faced with these things?I can pretend that I'm against welfare, but in reality I'm against bureaucracy. Not only do you have the right not to purchase shitty insurance, you have the right not to deal with W2s and shit. Burning your SS card is a far more radical act than burning your draft card.
Damn, dude. Every other time I stop by this place, I find you contorting yourself trying to pick on a group that only a retarded banana republic like contemporary America would call 'liberal.' This is all while every other person you pass on the street is slightly to the right of Joe Goebbels. Do you ever wonder what your silly little carping looks like, to a person of average intelligence? Get a grip on yourself.
You can tell when you have met a liberal because you just punched it in the nose.
If Desargues doesn't know what a Banana Republic is, is it safe to say he doesn't know what a liberal is, too?
Significant other? If EL really has a girl or boyfriend I'll eat my hat.
Lisa needs braces.(Fuck you all.)
See? That's the difference between you and me, nonny@7:02. I don't doubt you DO have a significant other whom you love very much.What's its name again?
Johnny's upholding judicial integrity is wut! And in spite of the nosebleed, Desargues knows that only a true liberal something or another, cuz he gets his news from Yerip.
Some liberals drive Cadillacs.http://firedoglake.com/2010/01/07/cadillac-flip-flop-obama-was-against-health-plan-tax-before-he-was-for-it/
i liked cloud's comment
yeah Cloud ftw
i had health insurance once. then they told me i had to go to the doctor. forget that.
cloud worries about the problems of dealing with excessive bureaucracy but i think these will become less and less salient as the twentyfirst century continues all we will have to do is present our national id card at any service or security opportunity and after the sensors read it we will automatically get what is coming to us whatever it is later on the card will be superfluous as everyone will have embedded RFID chips
I don't wanna sound like a dick or nothing, but it says on your chart that you're fucked up. You talk like a fag, and your shit's all retarded.
Scintillating repartee and what a charming tableau.
Desargues---Authoritarian coercion in the name of the public good has as many fans on the Left as on the Right. The following quote ain't Goebbels, but does evoke the other side of that same coin:"In order then that the social compact may not be an empty formula, it tacitly includes the undertaking, which alone can give force to the rest, that whoever refuses to obey the general will shall be compelled to do so by the whole body. This means nothing less than that he shall be forced to be free; for this is the condition which, by giving each citizen to his country, secures him against all personal dependence". Concerning Rousseau's ending clause about "citizens", it's fitting that only undocumented Latinos and their families, a major source of current strain on our healthcare system, will be at, um, liberty to opt out of the ACA. (As individuals, anyway---Obamafriend organizations and corporations are already awash in waivers). Since the point isn't healthcare per se but establishing centralized power precedents, it's all a wash in the long run.
Inkberrow,The major source of strain on the health care system is the insurance companies that wrote the legislation. Still, you are correct that the point isn’t health care rather it is about who put Obama in office and what he does for them in return. It’s called profit. And since most illegal immigrants do pay federal and state income taxes it is not at all clear that they can opt out of this since the way this new legislation will be enforced is through the IRS which will levy the fines (which are actually a tax) for those not buying expensive and crappy health insurance as mandated.
"it's fitting that only undocumented Latinos and their families, a major source of current strain on our healthcare system, will be at, um, liberty to opt out of the ACA"My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose.
So you wanna pay the latinos minimum wage + bennies for their work? TDS
God damn it, when are underpaid, overworked and overtaxed immigrant laborers going to LOWER the price of a consumer good, for once. Fucking freeloaders.
I guess Anderson Cooper is publicly gone off on a man date .
Yeah ts@912 - ya think it'll give M'sieur enough courage to finally admit he's straight?
Stop stepping on my dreams, lack.
sorry, leon@12:18 - but speakin of dreams being stepped on ...http://www.bartleby.com/146/36.htmlNo, no need to thank me - it was the least I could do under the circumstance ...
the light by cloth
For that there fourth of ju-ly: http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/003627.html
OK - how a propos is this:"Nothing to be done".Psst - if you understand the ref and why it was posted, don't post a spoiler ... let the ignonnymous lumpenproletariat chew on it for a while ...But .. you can post that you do understand the ref, just to let folks know that you are a cut above the ignonnymous ...
And here's another one just for Nutellus:"So here we are"in recognition of our common situation.Again, no spoilers please ... OK to post that you grok the ref, though
Informed sources have kindly told me the reason for M'sieur's current absence.He's been tapped to help organize the Prez's visit to Carnegie-Mellon, and he's too embarassed to tell us that he accepted the assignment - pro bono no less!He should therefore return sometime shortly after the Prez leaves P-burgh tomorrow ...
eerily, thank you for that bit of info , i was becoming concerned , said the lady .. now with the strayed .. dog .. .
"To work is no shameTo steal and to cheat is shame"- kulak proverb, Panonian steppe-douchebagTDS
anne@1049 - I assume you realize I was just funnin', but figured I'd better tell you, just in case your response wasn't tongue in cheek ...
ignonnymous@3:02 - perhaps you are not aware that the poem is a very early one of his, written in a style which he himself specifically disavowed and rejected later in life ... so yes, he would probably agree that "enwrought" was emblematic of that style ... still and all, the overall trope of the poem does kill ...
i think you meant overwrought
That's the fear: that these nasty old left farts such as Žižek, Badiou, Rancière and Eagleton will corrupt the minds of innocent youth. But does reading Marx and Engels's critique of capitalism mean that you thereby take on a worldview responsible for more deaths than the Nazis? Surely there is no straight line from The Communist Manifesto to the gulags, and no reason why young lefties need uncritically to adopt Badiou at his most chilling. In his introduction to a new edition of The Communist Manifesto, Professor Eric Hobsbawm suggests that Marx was right to argue that the "contradictions of a market system based on no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous 'cash payment', a system of exploitation and of 'endless accumulation' can never be overcome: that at some point in a series of transformations and restructurings the development of this essentially destabilising system will lead to a state of affairs that can no longer be described as capitalism".
@ nuttellawhat is a bannana republic?
"But does reading Marx and Engels's critique of capitalism mean that you thereby take on a worldview responsible for more deaths than the Nazis? "does reading an adam smith pamphlett mean you take on a worldview (capitalism) responsible for more deaths than "the nazis" and ,Marxist Lenninism combined?
Stop talking about Marx and stuff! You're clogging up the space wherein EL is to pomposify. It is his blog after all, so show a little respect.
ignonnymous@7:38I see the pmposity motif gets to you also ... good to know ... sometimes I get bored with the sycophancy motif, so it's good to know I have an effective fall-back that will also get on your last nerve ...
Trying to get on people's nerves is the motif of a 3rd grade boy who doesn't get enough attention from mommy and daddy.
the oedipus motif again? i thought this was the 21st century.anyway, don't you hate the word motif? i mean, not as much as sycophancy, but put them together and kittens die.
Always funny to watch him fall in love with a new word, and proceed to overuse it to the point of torture. Lumpen, motif, commentariat, trope, it's all just so,...overwrought. (EL is sycophantastic.)
ignonnynmous@12:20 - [performance artist motif alert]While getting on people's nerves may be something 3rd graders can do well, getting on someone's last nerve is something only a mature and seasoned performance artist such as myself can really carry-off ...[end p.a.m alert]
This has gotta be the only blog that doesn't even need the blogger-in-chief. The attendant suppositories just keep the flow a flowin'.
can one be a performance artist on comment boards without ever submitting a video or even audio recording???also, im confused on the last-nerve: do you mean that you've driven some of us to suicide by "getting on" (lol) our last nerve?
nonny@1:39 - he got the idea from reading Tom Sawyer - why paint the fence yourself when you can get others to do it for you ...?nonny@1:49 - yes, if you're a MINIMALIST performance artist ...but of course, the best minimalist performance artists among the commentariat here are the homeopathic friends of Nutellus who comment in vanishingly small amounts ...[cue outraged post from Nutellus]
i'm bringing sexy back .. . , yo momma cares
it's warm here , should i shave my head .. . , for that .. of reason why to do only . .. help with punc'uation please eerily
FOODIE FRIDAY. COME ON. WHAT THE FUCK.
was the harvest moon a fri. of foodie
I have it on good authority that "IOZ" has discovered who he/she really is, and has decided to get a job. This blog is, from now on, officially, the ongoing responses to THIS one post.
'Tis all irrelevant, anyway--has now been proven that God exists.
back in from my thoughts on harvesting the moon , before i go over to have a look at what ar ka has posted on g'd i wonder does he have long hair like his son .. ,said odd girl of the rib'ing of 'er making no pi .. .
ar' , looked over at what you are writing about of mention here in the wee hours, then the link there , chrisT, the secrets of birth in '64 are all over of out in the new of news , said in 'er room fanning , now tub before a wander with the trees ,
i've been reading about social marketing recently in the context of health behavior change
charley, you usually give us a little more than that .. . a quote or something , are you changed ?
anne - yes, i am changed, and the change i have made is to dedicate myself to changing others for the good of allmy mission:improbable, which i have chosen to accept for the foreseeable future howeverlongthatis, is to spread the gospel of plant-based eating (better for you, better for the animals, better for the planet) to a number of my actual or potential associatesHere's a quote from GreenCOM's description of Social Marketing -1. Changing behavior is the bottom line. Increasing knowledge or attitudes is not sufficient.2. All strategies begin with the target audience, which might consist of anyone from “women who manage household waste” to a select group of policymakers.3. Market research is essential to designing, pretesting,and evaluating each project. Social marketers strive to understand the audience’s needs, wants, values, and perceptions in order to craft the best “offer” or “product” that will motivate the audience to take certain actions.4. Through preliminary research, audiences are carefully segmented into groups with similar needs. Each group may receive a different “offer” based on its particular needs.5. Social marketers develop strategies based on “Four P’s”: product, price, place, and promotion. By researching their audience they learn which product (benefits) and at which price (often time or effort rather than money) the audience will accept in exchange for new behaviors. Place refers to how the product is delivered. Promotion refers to the marketing campaign that promotes theadvantages of the exchange to the audience.6. The strategy addresses the “competition”: the audience’s current behavior as well as possible alternative behaviors.This competition must be understood and addressed by “positioning” (the 5th “P”) the desired behavior as preferable to competing behaviors.pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNADI227.pdfperhaps this is not a very entertaining comment - but in this it is not so unique
I make more than some other people in the world, so if I’m in a restaurant, I tip over 20 percent—I tip more. Because I know that other people can’t. Tipping is a thing where you can actually steal money from a waiter; you can just not give them any. A lot of people, when they go out to eat during a recession, they just don’t tip, and I’m aware of that. It’s just my quiet thing that I do. I’ll tip over 20 percent because I can afford it. It’s just my own voluntary Buffett Rule. That’s all it is.
charley, not able to look at the link because i'm a do most of my reading and living off line sort , and i've been a plant nibbler that doesn't go out to where others might be preparing 'er food ever (to the next of commenting after you )
been forever .. .
This is a little funnier. I just got in the mail Kotler and Lee's Social Marketing: Influencing Behaviors for Good (3rd edition). I note that it is dedicated to their co-author for the first two editions, who is now the Coca-Cola Professor of International Marketing at the Asian Institute of Management in the Philippines.
Charley, thanks for your Dana Meadows recommendation back in April. I absolutely love it.
Pox take you, servant of the enemy. For millions of years of evolutionary development, advanced bipedal omnivores have exchanged nourishment with other living things on this planet. Now, the elites have a great component of the strategy to finish off the proles: disconnect that chain and encourage unhealthy herbivorianism, dependent on expensive pharmaceuticals for even a farce at health, for the ones foolish and privileged enough to think that they're making a heroic upper middle class honky independent choice to break free of the cycle. Your reprocessed, hexane-laced soy clusters and bottled chemical supplements, and the clear-cutting and big pharm plants they embody, are the Toyota Prius battery acids and coal-powered plug-in electric cars of short-sighted MBA-spawned "rebellion" against the old industrial poisons, in favor of the more noxious new ones. And it still doesn't really get you healthy. Classificist carnivores and herbivores never win this game. In humans in particular, it kills life. Infant health and sperm counts drop as miscarriage rates rise. Paid, or duped? Which is the more hideous; which is the more pitiful? Servant of the enemy.
I've seen the animal in man. That beast that pisses in sinks, shits in plastic bags, has to soak and cut and prise the socks from off its feet, has become indifferent to the stench of its own arsehole, lays around wrapped up in filthy blankets snarling at life and rotting away by the pound. I've watched men regress into neo-savages, committing murder, rape and incest with no strategic end in mind. I've seen our species fight and bite and rip and fuck one another to pieces. I've watched the unloved become the unloving and the loveless become the lawless. I've seen beautiful people destroyed by the high cost of living, selling their bodies and organs for a moments respite from the daily grind. I've known streets of endless misery, city-sized slums full of the walking wounded, tower blocks used as human rubbish dumps: 300 ft of isolation and depression, whole families staring out and down, wondering what mark they'd leave if they hit the floor from there.
ar k' , i'm just a plant nib bler out here on my own .. in doing because it's what i have always instinctively liked , i know of all that you mention here , and i don't eat laced .. ., i've been at this for a long time , i'm 48, and i was a toddler when i started .. . of what i do eat , that i say little of here .. .
How can I get EL and Arka to form a suicide pact?
hot enema@9:21Who the fuck do you think you are ... Father Laurence?Note to High Arka - If we keep it up, perhaps we will go down in WebStory as the Heloise and Abelard of the internet, except of course ...[sycophancy motif alert]you would be MY teacher[end sycophancy motif alert]Or better yet, Jacqueline and Blaise ... (her spiritual awakening preceded his)...On that note, it's interesting that Zeffirelli immortalied Francis and Claire in "Brother Sun, Sister Moon", but no one has ever pinned Jacqueline and Blaise in a celluloid case ...
When Jeff gets back, maybe he can decide if chauffer's suggestion would help, or if the latter should just try artificial insemination and put the whole thing in the hands of experienced professionals.
(anne dear, you turned out well, but it's not for everyone. The mass movement to subtly encourage lower caste choices to eat less healthy but more efficient food precedes the turn to worker bots and server lives.)
ar k , ( i know about all of what you are suggesting at in what you wrote there . .. , i don't know about the i " turned out well " ?, i'm kind of swimmy , in my love of eating fleurs .. .) / there is something that you wrote about a few posts back that i still need to finish reading , and that i wanted to share with you something of a personal run in with one of the people mentioned ,of how it relates , maybe when i get a chance on tues.
High Arka, you regard herbivorism as something being sold to the lower castesi suggest an alternative hypothesis - that the MICFiC's strategy is to promote gluttonous and addictive overconsumption of the 'Standard American Diet' to support the profits of multinational corporations - the agribusinesses, restaurant chains, makers of soda pop and potato chips, as well as all those who profit from the chronic illnesses which are the result of unhealthy eatingi mention this issue to you, but will not be bringing it up to the market segments i am targeting, for obvious reasonssimilarly, i will not mention the suffering of all the animals raised to produce food, not just when their time is up (for each human and each animal must taste death, after all) but during a lifetime of cruel confinement - 'speak to people in accordance with their understanding', as advised by pioneer social marketer muhammad peacebeuponhim the 'needs, wants, values, and perceptions' of the audience chez IOZ allow me to mention these matters which should be benignly neglected when addressing other publicsthe
mistah charley , hello again , you're both right in some of what you both suggest at here , i've been involved with .., of being humane ,of more involvement from all and smaller of farming , and of following more in the gentle footing of something of the ways of those that are more native to this land ,of sacred and regard , said she is only saying a little of .. don't assume too much of what is not said here .. .
added note - the first thing that my father always says something of on returning from a little bit of traveling with his wee camper and tent down to our only connect to your land, of coming in in part on the east coast in the 17th c. of his mother's ,my grand and so on , .. . of what he says with his quiet, and fine humour , of our all seeing is something of the wobble of gluttony in passing through , but we both know that it's more than wobble , also the putting one's finger to mouth to waste good and bad food ,and so on
3200 occasionally beautiful blog posts from 2006 to the present, with regular inanities from Mr. Fun and only infrequent inanities from these clowns, you're goddamn right I'm living in the fucking past.
'mous, 10,17 , lovely clowns ,of eerily, and ar k, and mistah , and myself , yes you're living in the past .. . , this future is brighter , you miss so much , pun and not , of fund
ignonnymous@10:17am - yes yes - the exhaustion of nostalgia is terrible ... so let me help you class up your act a bit ...Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: Σίβυλλα τί θέλεις ("Sibulla ti theleis?"); respondebat illa: ἀποθανεῖν θέλω ("apothanein thelo") ...
switching back to arrogant/ignorant motif with the Satyricon ref while maintaining the sycophant motif while remaining abso-fucking-lutely unaware of the irony motif
ignonnymous@12:22-The "Satyricon ref" ????I will let others conclude what it says about you that you didn't refer to it with an appellation by which it is perhaps more well-known ...... the "Wasteland" ref ...Were you aware of its place in the poem but chose to be hypercultured by citing the primary (relatively speaking) source?Or were you unware of its place in the poem?Only your hairdresser knows for sure, I suppose.But one would certainly hope that you ARE aware of its use in the poem, given the fact that it is that use which makes in so exquisitely appropriate in a response to your "nostalgia post".
in eerily's dressing of hair something of why anne shaves 'er own 'ead
why do you drop your aitches, anne@12:53?Are you trying to "do the police in different voices"?
the he from 'er eerily
the "he" from "her" ???? !!!!!!tell me you're shitting me, anne - please!that is not what Ezra meant when he said we all have a responsibility to "purify the dialect of the tribe" ...
how are you understanding .. of the he from 'er first say more of ? the h gone is the he from 'er i've said 'er here many times before ,of my very feminin' , i still get daily suggestions of that being of something of what am , i turned fortyeight in feb. ..but still daily some addressing of the extreme of feminine from others ,of all living around me here pointed out to me in so many different ways ,some just stare and then say something of never seeing someone move in such a feminine way ,/ there is also something of a compulsion for me in removing the he from her , of making something else of that rib'ing from / ..i've been having some thoughts on the other of the dickens mention in the renaming since writing that back to your query , and that i don't sense that you ever really hear my voice ,try to imagine something of von bingen humming softly , it's not that i don't play at other voices ,it's just that they are usually of giving the animals a voice,voices .. in very odd ways
just trying to add a little class to your rather pedestrian Wasteland ref. by all means continue with your kabuki
anonymous ,2,57, are you trying to speak with me on something of wasteland ref. or eerily ?
for if that person doesn't respond back , i'll assume that they were addressing eerily , in that i wasn't commenting on wasteland ref. with eerily .. , only that i had some thoughts on .. before i went on with addressing something else in what i wrote , and eerily is more of kabuki
charley, "plant-based" is to the Democratic Party as "bacon cheeseburger!" is to the Republican Party. It's being heavily, cleverly pushed by American-liberal medical and social sources, and will gradually creep its way further into the mainstream. Just as Obama is as much as (greater?) an imperialist as Bush, or the Prius as much as (greater?) an environmental horror as the F150, the genetically-altered hexane bean is as unhealthy, costly, and environmentally devastating as the feces-laced McDonald's pattie. If you're here, you've probably figured out that elite ruse of "Obama v. Romney." But so many of you grand political thinkers, when it comes to the food and entertainment choices proffered by the elites, are suddenly blushing virgins, who think it really was your idea to suddenly be interested in a plant-based diet or a plug-in car. You are getting played. Not just played like a voter, but played in the wallet, bloodstream, and soul. You're getting consumer-played, in a way you probably thought you were already immune to. And citing just how bad Nixon/Bush/Romney is has absolutely nothing to do with exonerating Obama. So too is the factory kill-lot a non sequitur as to your megacorp-processed tofu patty.
arka, the only one here that has shown signs of not knowing about the processed ,of how far it has gone , of what it has become now is puppy lander , the rest have shown signs that they do know of , but step out of this room in to the larger of north america and so many are out to a mid day of not knowing .. . yes
High Arka - I suggest reading John McDougall's The Starch Solution and or Caldwell Esselstyn's Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, or take a look at their websites, or various videos of them speaking on YouTube. You seem to think they and their ilk are promoting the production and consumption of textured vegetable protein products, but they aren't.
H-A:The real issue is to distinguish between flutters of butterfly wings that will ultimately lead to significant social change (for good or bad) and those that will not.For example, let us say for the sake of discussion that the Christ was a real historical personage (whether half-God or not who cares.)How would one distinguish the fluttering of His wings (which certainly led to significnat social change) and the maunderings of Mr Charley's teachers here?For example, I well remember the period between Friedan and Steinem, and there were those who argued during that period that "feminism" would never lead to significant social change and yet it has - our bureaucracies are crumbling because smart women can now go into the professions.So how do we know that pale-faced earth-shoed veggies won't someday bring down state capitalism? Of oourse they won't, but what I'm asking is what is the diagnostic that allows us to distinguish nascent movements going nowhere from nascent movements going somewhere.
Take off and nuke this site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
re ignonnymous@6:47 - how banal are the fantasies of the impotent ...
Extremist elderly doctors claim plant-based nutrition has 'transformational power' but is opposed by powerful elements of 'the status quo'Esselstyn and Campbell assert:The United States government is too politically crippled to halt nutritional disease epidemics. The United States Department of Agriculture every 5 years designs the food pyramid for all Americans. Inasmuch as all officers of the USDA have previously held executive positions with the cattle, dairy, pork and egg industry, it is not surprising that each new pyramid contains the foods that guarantee millions of Americans will perish each year. The fox is in the henhouse. Having the USDA prepare our food pyramid is like having Al Capone prepare our income tax return. In summary, the only forces against resolution of our most serious diseases are medicine, industry and the government. The billions of income they receive from preserving the status quo make them a formidable adversary. Nevertheless, the forces for health can prevail if they educate the public in the transformational power of plant based nutrition to cure and prevent disease. Why would anyone enjoy a meal knowing they were about to injure the lining of their blood vessels? The same nutrition which eliminates heart attacks and stroke also eliminates obesity, diabetes, hypertension, the common western cancers, gallstones, diverticulitis, osteoporosis...http://www.heartattackproof.com/revolution.htm
EL, exploitative religious imperialism was more than able to use feminism to keep plucky radicals busy for a few decades, then formally acknowledge that elite women could hold ceremonial public and/or decisive private positions over the trigger. Similarly, it will continue to facilitate the transition from exploitative, poisonous, unhealthy meat farming and promoting to exploitative, poisonous, unhealthy plant farming and promoting. Charley, you rebel, you! Blissfully unaware of the millions of 80 year old pre-boomer farmer children who grew up and lived on buttered steak without diabetes or LA Fitness, you look to the next generation of MD PhDs getting funded and published (with genuine grassroots [TM] revolutions!) by big money to guide the lower castes into eating stuff that costs even less to produce and store. These extremist Jon Stewarts of the foodie realm will be more than happy to tell you what a sea change it is to sweep a black man into office for the Very First Time. A million years, or just ten thousand years, of human evolution have formed omnivore bodies, but you know better. You know that the post-industrial cancers and weight problems of the populace are caused not by industrial toxins and sedentary lifestyles, but by "eating meat." We gotta get the proles into some cheaper feedbags, believing that they prefer it for moral/health reasons. Graze, coward bovines, graze. The chase is gone from you; sleek predators of the mind will drone your children from the inside and make you believe it was your idea. You can't fight back; you don't even want to fight back. The thought that some death is good death terrifies you; why should you need to consume something to survive? It wasn't your fault you got trapped inside that hideous protein-needing shell, was it? Where did you sign up? Note, EL, the religious similarities we see here. To one kind of sickened cultist, the Earth is only 5,000 years old. Man was created differently than all other animals; he did not grow and evolve from something that came before. To another, man is different from all of his primate cousins, because his eating meat harms him. Man has a separate and distinct nature that deviates him from everything that came before. Because, like, the Beef Producers Council. We saw this with trans fats recently. Chemical advances in the early 20th century resulted in the development of industrial preservatives known as partially hydrogenated oils, which harmed people for decades. Extremist doctors and nutritionists were at the ready to produce studies blaming saturated meat and dairy fats for all the problems of trans fats. Finally, decades later, word went out that it was okay to blame the real culprit. Trans fats got slammed and regulated; the chemists are already responding with new fractionated oils and wilder stuff, but concomitant with the fall we have the mainstreamization of the "plant" movements that were always there. Little bits of genuine criticism are co-opted, and larger swathes of the population start to rationalize giving up expensive, quality animal products by choice, making them cheaper laborers. And then, amazingly, El-ahrairah managed to convince the King that he didn't want the lettuces; in fact, that he wanted to throw them out! They were making his people sick, and were far too much trouble.
It takes 16 pounds of vegetable protein to produce a single pound of animal protein. There are 7 billion human beings to feed, and more every minute. Of course, highly privileged Americans see no reason that they should care about the social asymptotes created by our current consumption patterns vis-a-vis population growth and limitation of arable resources.
Forget that--do you know how much SUN it takes to produce a single pound of vegetable anything, let alone protein? Of course, highly privileged internet users see no reason that they should care about less attractive takes on their current consumption patterns vis-a-vis stunted imaginations and current economic patterns. It may be time to start following IOZ's earlier advice and reducing those inconvenient little living numbers. Fewer humans means fewer worries. When my work is done, none shall suffer.
I think it’s time we showed a little more respect for the noble turnip. Equal rights for vegetables! I mean if you were a turnip and reading these comments how would you feel? How difficult is it to put yourself in the turnip’s shoes? Rhubarb, onions, and celery unite! Occupy Oakland for your fair share of fertilizer. Swiss chard, arugula, corn, cabbage, and black-eyed peas are the ninety-nine percent. Harvest is just another word for murder. Vegetarians are no better than cannibals!
Yeah, vegetables of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your roots! Argh! These philosophers eat too much language...devine comedy for lunch anyone? No thanks, but I'm gonna put some celery in my tuna salad.
turn ip's shoes ? .. . yes i've been there said the fish that hangs with the rhubarb .. .
Highly recommended, and mercury freeMOCK TUNA SALADINGREDIENTS:1(15 oz.) can chick-peas, drained (or 1.5 cup cooked)1/4 cup vegan mayonnaise (the original would call for in-excess of 1/4 c., but 1/4 c. is WAY more than enough--I think I even used only 1/4 c. on a double-batch of this, and it was *still* magnifique, so if you're looking for lower-fat and calories, just add a wee bit at a time)1/3 cup minced celery2.5 T. minced dill pickle (about 1 pickle-slice, give or take)1/2 T. nutritional yeast1 green onion, chopped1 t. soy saucepepper, to tasteDIRECTIONSIn a medium bowl, mash the chick-peas coarsely with a fork. Mix in the remaining ingredients. Use on sandwiches or on a bed of salad greens. (Original recipe from Compassionate Action for Animals)
H-A:You wrote:"EL, exploitative religious imperialism was more than able to use feminism to keep plucky radicals busy for a few decades"which leads me to think that you are perhaps the most honest woman posting on the web, if in fact you are a woman.But notice the Moore's Law regarding diminishing time that can be wrapped up:race - 200 yearsgender - 100 yearssexual preference - 50 yearsI suspect that "climate change/global warming" (EVEN IF "REAL") will pre-occupy the unruly (like a teething ring) for 25 years and then the elites will have to come up with a new crib toy.
Ah, 115 comments...and finally some useful information. Something I can really sink my teeth into. Thanks Fannie.
ignonnymous@9:05 - [cue lucid]Strongly recommend a course of in-depth reading on the roots of the word "school" in the Greek "skolia" which meant, literally "free time".Since I know you won't follow my advice here, I'll give you the Cliff notes summary:leisure to the ancient elites was precisely free-time to think about important things, not useful things ...[end cue lucid]
erroneous@9:10...and the noted Latin poet Gaius Valerius Catullus once commented upon observing a dog licking its own asshole, "all tastes are tastes."
anon 6:02,1. you or plagiarism?2. it's interesting. i have never personally witnessed any of those things. so, cartesian skepticism: real?
ignonnymous@9:26 -"erroneous" ????well. it's easy to quote the Cat-man - he dropped more sound-bites than any modern politician - but how about a refutation citation to my claim ...Oh - wait a sec - never mind - I forgot that the goal of M'sieur's lumpencommentariat is to be brittle above all else ...
erroneous@9:32What d'ya know?...and it's even easier to make tuna salad.
Anonymous @ 12:47 AM said... I have it on good authority that "IOZ" has discovered who he/she really is, and has decided to get a job. This blog is, from now on, officially, the ongoing responses to THIS one post.That's a wrap. Shut 'er down.
Yeah, let's all move over to Karl's blogsplot and see if we can save the world.
Dorothy Parker you're not.
Well, Karl Franz Ochstradt you're not, so we're even.
To nony@9:49AI can make an apple turnover
nonny@2:07 - that remind me of the joke about the peaches the guy was selling for $35.00 per ...do you know it?if not, would you like to hear it ?
nony@2:07So you wanna get serious?
Far be it from me to agree with Akra, but on this occasion she is absolutely correct. The ag-business lobby has been pushing the vegetable crap for 7 or 8 decades & it has resulted in the insane amount of chronic disease we now see [including heart disease, cancer, diabetes, inflammatory auto-immune disease, asthma, etc.]... & it all stems from the simple fact that vegetable based oils break down into arachidonic acid when processed by our digestive tract. This acid is used by the body to create inflammation [a natural part of the immune response]. However, unlike cholesterol, increased dietary intake actually does result in increased arachidonic acid in the body. This results in an immune system that is over inflammatory which leads to pretty much all of the modern chronic diseases.On the flip side, saturated fats reduce the inflammation response of the body. So the natural antidote to excess arachidonic acid is to eat animal fats... This is, of course, why there is so much chronic disease present in the vegetarian and vegan communities, and why self-identifying vegetarians and vegans have on average shorter life-spans than omnivores - they ain't getting enough saturated fat, especially when they are faced with a processed food regime that is over-saturating them with arachidonic acid.
lucid@2:29 ...Arka may be correct, but NOT because of arachidonic acid ...I think you may have watched one too many spiderman movies ?
EL, AA is a real thing.
Oh - and a lot of the research is from the last 15-20 years, so it hasn't filtered into mainstream medicine yet, as mainstream medicine is almost always at least 25 years behind...
We're all gonna die of something. Fuck all of you.
it is asserted that "self-identifying vegetarians and vegans have on average shorter life-spans than omnivores"but the scientific literature contradicts thisDoes low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans?1,2,3Pramil N Singh, Joan Sabaté, and Gary E Fraser1From the Departments of Epidemiology & Biostatistics (PNS, JS, and GEF) and Nutrition (JS), School of Public Health, Loma Linda University, Loma Linda. AbstractBackground: Since meat products represent a major source of protein in the Western diet, findings on whether meat intake significantly contributes to the burden of fatal disease have important clinical and public health implications.Objective: The objective was to examine whether a very low meat intake (less than weekly) contributes to greater longevity.Design: We reviewed data from 6 prospective cohort studies and report new findings on the life expectancy of long-term vegetarians from the Adventist Health Study.Results: Our review of the 6 studies found the following trends: 1) a very low meat intake was associated with a significant decrease in risk of death in 4 studies, a nonsignificant decrease in risk of death in the fifth study, and virtually no association in the sixth study; 2) 2 of the studies in which a low meat intake significantly decreased mortality risk also indicated that a longer duration (≥ 2 decades) of adherence to this diet contributed to a significant decrease in mortality risk and a significant 3.6-y (95% CI: 1.4, 5.8 y) increase in life expectancy; and 3) the protective effect of a very low meat intake seems to attenuate after the ninth decade. Some of the variation in the survival advantage in vegetarians may have been due to marked differences between studies in adjustment for confounders, the definition of vegetarian, measurement error, age distribution, the healthy volunteer effect, and intake of specific plant foods by the vegetarians.Conclusion: Current prospective cohort data from adults in North America and Europe raise the possibility that a lifestyle pattern that includes a very low meat intake is associated with greater longevity._________________Cancer Manag Res. 2010 Dec 20;3:1-8.Reduced cancer risk in vegetarians: an analysis of recent reports.Lanou AJ, Svenson B. Department of Health and Wellness, University of North Carolina Asheville, Asheville, NC, USA.AbstractThis report reviews current evidence regarding the relationship between vegetarian eating patterns and cancer risk. Although plant-based diets including vegetarian and vegan diets are generally considered to be cancer protective, very few studies have directly addressed this question. Most large prospective observational studies show that vegetarian diets are at least modestly cancer protective (10%-12% reduction in overall cancer risk) although results for specific cancers are less clear. No long-term randomized clinical trials have been conducted to address this relationship. However, a broad body of evidence links specific plant foods such as fruits and vegetables, plant constituents such as fiber, antioxidants and other phytochemicals, and achieving and maintaining a healthy weight to reduced risk of cancer diagnosis and recurrence. Also, research links the consumption of meat, especially red and processed meats, to increased risk of several types of cancer. Vegetarian and vegan diets increase beneficial plant foods and plant constituents, eliminate the intake of red and processed meat, and aid in achieving and maintaining a healthy weight. The direct and indirect evidence taken together suggests that vegetarian diets are a useful strategy for reducing risk of cancer.
Mr C - your crusade here reminds me of when Pete Seeger realized he couldn't really push the big C any longer with a clear conscience, so he decided to concentrate on cleaning up the Hudson ...... as Arka says, playthings for those who realize that they're not quite yet willing to die like Joe Hill ...Suggestion: read Man's Fate if you want to see how a member of the elite acts when truly committed ...
accidentally omitted the journal citation info on one abstract above - Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans? Am J Clin Nutr 2003;78(suppl):526S–32SSee alsoAMERICAN JOURNAL OF LIFESTYLE MEDICINE May/June 2012 vol. 6 no. 3 250-267Health Implications of a Vegetarian DietA ReviewKate Marsh, BSc, MNutrDiet, PhDCarol Zeuschner, BSc, MScAngela Saunders, BS, MANorthside Nutrition and Dietetics, Chatswood, AustraliaKate Marsh, BSc, MNutrDiet, PhD, Northside Nutrition and Dietetics, 74/47 Neridah Street, Chatswood NSW 2067, Australia e-mail: email@example.com.AbstractThere is now a significant amount of research that demonstrates the health benefits of vegetarian and plant-based diets, which have been associated with a reduced risk of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and some types of cancer as well as increased longevity. Vegetarian diets are typically lower in fat, particularly saturated fat, and higher in dietary fiber. They are also likely to include more whole grains, legumes, nuts, and soy protein, and together with the absence of red meat, this type of eating plan may provide many benefits for the prevention and treatment of obesity and chronic health problems, including diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Although a well-planned vegetarian or vegan diet can meet all the nutritional needs of an individual, it may be necessary to pay particular attention to some nutrients to ensure an adequate intake, particularly if the person is on a vegan diet. This article will review the evidence for the health benefits of a vegetarian diet and also discuss strategies for meeting the nutritional needs of those following a vegetarian or plant-based eating pattern.
Design: We reviewed data from 6 prospective cohort studies and report new findings on the life expectancy of long-term vegetarians from the Adventist Health Study.Because looking at disease and death rates from the 7th Day Adventist community is so applicable to everyone else... Look all cause death rates per annum of omnivores are typically .04% below that of vegetarians and that has been born out by data consistently - and doesn't even control for other lifestyle factors.
oh Jesus God - I thought that nothing could be worse than discussion of thermite's effect on steel, but see that I was dead wrong about that ...
omgzzz!!! el's complaining about other people's posts!!!is this cuz no one wanted to hear your recycled joke???
poor EL - you suffer so much - lighten the mood with this video of vintage film clips to Dean Friedman's 1977 song about Ariel - "she wore a peasant blouse with nothing underneath...she forgot to tell me that she didn't eat meat"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGFW9jCFml4
EL - it just annoys me that so many people suffer needlessly from chronic diseases when all they have to do is start cooking with butter, stop eating foods prepared with vegetable oils & increase their animal fat intake for a few years to stabilize their bodies... as opposed to taking 'biologics' which will eventually give them leukemia...
and, didnt peeter seeger change his name to yushef islam???hahahaha
lucid - I totally agree with you and Arka about the omnivore thing and how an omnivore diet WITH EVERYTHING IN MODERAATION is obviously the evolutionarily correct thing to do - all I was saying is that I passed your comments about AA past a couple of pros who are not necessary establishment in their thinking, and they both responded by asking "who wrote this crap?"In general, if you undertand how complex "pathways" actually are inside the body, you undersatnd why you should never trust any claim that one particular thing is a culprit - except of course in specific cases like all the various heavy-metal poisons etc.
2 questions for nonny@3:52 - Is jo moms a bread-saleslady?Do you have a brother named Humphrey?
EL - obviously it's a lot more of a complex problem than the manner in which I described. However, there are a number of more recent trends in cell biology that tie in with what I'm saying here that have come from seemingly disparate areas of research. At primary issue is I think we're on the verge of a completely new understanding of immune system function due to a new understanding of work by people like McClintock and Margulis [and strangely enough some of this has come out of 'HIV' reasearch in which, even though the mainstream still refuse to acknowledge it, the last 10 years of research basically points to the Perth Group being right about cell oxidation].I don't think there are any studies that directly bear out this change of tack, but just from my reading, the sense I'm getting is that the cutting edge of cell biology is at serious odds with the current knowledge regime & the resulting revolution in understanding of immune system function will also play directly into what I said about AA and inflammation disease.Call me crazy, but we'll see in another 20 years...
@EL 3:59You cite "a couple of pros" like the NYT cites un-named experts. Are your sources all so modest? Is your pathological tendency for self-flattery embarrassing for them as well?
ignonny@4:20 - yes - self-knowledge CAN be confused for self-flattery - that's why one must always consider the source when deciding between the two, e.g. my self-knowledge vs Leonard's self-flattery ...
lucid - i hesitate to call you crazy when i don't even know what the Perth Group has been saying about cell oxidationon the other hand, i wonder if you would be so kind as to point to citations supporting your claim "Look all cause death rates per annum of omnivores are typically .04% below that of vegetarians and that has been born out by data consistently - and doesn't even control for other lifestyle factors."
Yo - High Arka - wanna talk about tit torture? Anything but this, fercrissakes
EL@425Triangulation is a cheap, diversionary tactic. Why don't you just go conjugate some latin verbs fuckwits?
How cute. Having already unwittingly revealed himself to be a sockpuppeteer before openly admitting it, EL/Charley is now going to just openly carry on a conversation with himself. Seriously, drop dead, you parasitic fuck. Cease to exist. Join the choir invisible. But while we await that blessed event, go post your garbage on your own blogs, and take your stupid girlfriend with you.
MC - originally published "Death Rates of Vegetarians," Am. Jnl Epidemiol. 97:372 (1973)All cause death rates males non-veg .89% veg. .93% among women, non-veg. .54%, veg. .86%.I don't know much about that study, but it's the first I can find & it seems to me confirmed by data through the '80's and '90's as well. Now, here we do run into a problem because, as I mentioned with respect to studies that include the Adventist data, how can we extrapolate these types of things across different populations with different lifestyles, levels of poverty, etc., etc. Generally speaking, I think all such studies are rubbish, which is why I tend towards what's going on with the actual cell biology. I would never begrudge anyone who wishes to be a vegetarian [though I do think vegans are nuts & can do serious harm to themselves if they don't know what they're doing - and I'm not just talking anemia]. What I object to is anyone who claims it is more in tune with how our bodies work biologically, because that is patently false.
el,this is the nony from earlier you asked 2 question to. here are my answers:1. my mama has been dead for almost 15 years. before that, she didn't sell bread.2. i have 2 brothers, neither of them named humphrey.
nonny@5:09 - sorry about your mom, but it is refreshing to see someone try and play the "honest game" here once in a while ... nice move ...
lucid, it's bad eating habits with anything mentioned here that take you to an early grave
nonny@5:06 ah - you again - the self-appointed Javert chez IOZ ...I feel really bad your relatives ... you must be a hell of a cross to bear if your real-life obsessions are as reality-based as the one you're exhibiting here ...
lucid - thanks for the citation, which is widely spread through the pro-carnivore intellectual community, I see by Googlingon the other hand, there has never been a paper by that title at the American Journal of Epidemiologyhere's the title and abstract of the paper that actually appeared on the page in question - you'll note it statistically confirms John McDougall's anecdotal observations about how Japanese became fatter and more heart-attack prone as they moved from a traditional Japanese diet to a typically American oneIf data matter to you, I suggest you use PUBMED to research what studies actually show about life expectancies as related to diet - it's quite clear there's a lot of misinformation circulating---------------------Kato, H. (Dept. of Statistics, Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission, 5–2 Hijiyama Park, Hiroshima, Japan 730), J. Tilotson, M. Z. Nichaman, G. G. Rhoads and H. B. Hamilton. Epidemiologic studies of coronary heart disease and stroke in Japanese men living in Japan, Hawaii and California: Serum lipids and diet. Am J Epidemiol 97: 372–385, 1973.—The relationship between serum lipids, i.e., serum cholesterol and casual serum triglycerides, and dietary intake was investigated in men of Japanese ancestry resident in Japan, Hawaii and California as part of a large scale comparative study of cardiovascular diseases. The study provided a good opportunity for such an effort because dietary intake patterns varied remarkably among the three cohorts although their genetic background is essentially the same. Serum cholesterol showed a positive regression with dietary intake of saturated fat, animal protein, and dietary cholesterol. The regression with saturated fat was more strongly observed in Japan where average body weight and serum cholesterol levels are considerably lower than in the more Americanized cohorts, and where average dietary fat intakes are roughly 40% of those recorded in Hawaii and California. Interestingly, the relationship between saturated fat intake and serum cholesterol was stronger in the groups with lower relative body weight in both Japan and Hawaii. Serum cholesterol was negatively associated with complex carbohydrate intake, but no association was observed with simple carbohydrate. Regression of nutrient variables with casual triglyceride measurements was weak, although consistently negative with the calorie/weight index.
Yes I agree IOZ, John Roberts certainly did surprise a few people with his ACA vote.
The "standard American diet" is a straw man as to "plant-based." That's like calling IOZ a Republican because he doesn't like Obama. Of course, no one here would fall victim to such ridiculous tactics. It's so easy to take on the "standard American diet" that anything can beat it. The 1980s pasta craze beat it. Atkins beat it. Zone beat it. Pesca beat it. Everything beats it. Charley, you're getting off like a rototiller arguing with the policy positions of Ronald McHitler. It's an easy target, like hitting a pinata, but no one, even the Burger King council, actually advocates the "American diet" (excepting, perhaps, the Walton family). The overwrought rejection of human development and plants-only depends upon big pharm pills and chemical concoctions ("supplements"!) to achieve survivable levels of vitamin and protein, and when lucid, or anyone else, counters that a healthy omnivore diet is better, you respond by yet another heroic charge against "standard American." Fail. While we're here, let's add some racism to the mix. A lot of the reason the "plant-based diet" is being pushed by megacorps is that, as income levels rise in India and China, it's suddenly troubling that all these darker people want to eat a little more meat. So all of a sudden, western culture must adopt and promulgate a plant-based diet. Strictly for moral and health reasons. After all, there are so many overbreeding minorities out there in the third world! Five, no, six, no, seven billion of them! That proves we must immediately cut off the meat supply to the labor drones! For health reasons. Has nothing to do with China's growing purchasing power and how they now like to have pork for dinner every other night.
Good for you, Schmutzie@6:47Show the assholes here (like EL, Arka, lucid, and Mr Charley) what a responsible and appropriate response to a blog-post looks like.Too bad IOZ doesn't have more readers like you!
H-A:"Standard American Diet" - see abstract below - full text is available on the web for free"big pharm pills and chemical concoctions ("supplements"!) to achieve survivable levels of vitamin and protein"protein - absolutely not - contrary to common belief, plants have more than enough protein vitamins - only B12 ------------------------The Standard American Diet and Its Relationship to the Health Status of AmericansNutr Clin Pract December 2010 vol. 25 no. 6 603-612David Grotto, RD, LDNElisa Zied, MS, RD, CDN The Standard American Diet (SAD) has long been implicated in contributing to the health challenges experienced in the United States. Significant changes to the SAD have occurred since the 1950s, including a greater abundance and accessibility to calorie-dense and nutrient-poor food and beverage choices. The disparity of present consumption patterns to diet and nutrition recommendations from the Dietary Guidelines for Americans are addressed.http://ncp.sagepub.com/content/25/6/603.full
"I am a vegetableI get my body badly pulledI'm rooted to the spotNothing will rearrange me"
It’s a sign of the liberal that they will gladly tell everyone else how to live their lives. This includes what you should eat. Liberals are rather like those Watch Tower people that ring your doorbell in order to show you the path to god even if you don’t want a path to god.
8, 26 , they're just having a little discussion , no one is making anyone eat anything , now come back to the dance floor and get a little funky by this fan .. .
although i self-identified myself as a liberal to the telephone pollster today (and as lenny bruce memorably said, i've got the cancelled checks to prove it - for the youngsters among us, it was once the custom for banks to send the actual paper checks among themselves, and your bank would keep the checks they have paid and send them to you with your bank statement every month - these were "cancelled checks") i am not going around ringing doorbells to preach plant-based nutrition - not effectiveinstead, the question i am asking myself is, "are there people i have actual or potential access to who want what plant-based nutrition would give them, and can they be made an offer they decide not to refuse?"social marketing could be seen as 'anarchy in action'
How latter day of you! Or even just like Obama's ground game people. It's good to talk to people; it's good to offer new ideas to people. In your case, the idea is a dangerous one. You want dozens of thousands of years of omnivoral evolution to be discarded in favor of agribusiness' desired new-millennium marketing practices. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are/were vainglorious assholes, child exploiters and obscene tyrants, and some people play Everquest too much, but you'd lose a lot if you gave up your computer. Same game. /vegan/token linkhttp://www.laurelofleaves.com/2012/04/a-vegan-diet-is-not-healthy/
Vecchia CL, Vegetable consumption and risk of chronic disease. Epidemiology 1998; 9: 208-10.Key TJ et al., Dietary habits and mortality in 11,000 vegetarians and health conscious people: results of a 17-year follow up." BMJ 1996; 313: 775-79.Key TJ, Fraser GE, Thorogood M, et al. Mortality in Vegetarians and Non-Vegetarians: A collaborative Analysis of 8300 Deaths among 76,000 men and women in five prospective studies. Public Health N utrition 1998; 1: 33-41.Key TJ, Appleby PN, Rowell MS. Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets. Proceedings of the Nutritional Society 2006; 65: 35-41.Snowdon DA and Phillips RL. Does a vegetarian diet reduce the occurrence of diabetes? American Journal of Public Health 1985; 75: 507-512.
singing paeans to the dumb-accident god of evolution is where i tune out.
respjrat, what if Dawkins and Jehovah are making the same argument? And what if it is possible to use "evolution" to mean something different, healthy and real? 12:18 Anonymous, scalpel discovers: 1) How more likely than non-vegetarians are vegetarians to be (A) of a higher economic class, (B) thinking more in general about diet and exercise, regardless of what the test center packet says, (C) willing and able to spend the time being part of studies, (D) interested in promoting their lifestyle to grant recipients and the general public? Didja know that Mormons tend to be healthier and longer-lived than their heathen counterparts among the rest of the populace? Harvard MBAs, too. Abused statistics, like abused physics or history or gender studies, are so effing dangerous. The fancier the degree, the more the license to abuse basic concepts. Throw a bunch of radical anarchists in a room, and how long before some of them start throwing major government, industry, and university studies at you as proof positive? Fine. The U.S. Army serves meat to its finest soldiers. Case closed.
The point is to eat a nutritionally balanced diet comprising uncontaminated foods of high quality. Meat is just the simplest solution for protein requirements. Key word being SIMPLEST. Yes, "the U.S. Army serves meat to its finest soldiers" but nonetheless they can't seem to win a war.
what's going on with the actual cell biology - DIABETESTake a look at this article by Neal Barnard, written for the educated layperson but with primary sources cited.Barnard, Neal. The impact of a low-fat vegan diet on people with type 2 diabetes. DiabetesVOICE, June 2007, 52(2), 12-15.http://www.idf.org/sites/default/files/attachments/article_511_en.pdf
it's amazing how in the metaverse, topics and converationalists float around waiting to find suitable menages a trois, like the halves of ourselves wandering around to find our sexual others in the Platoverse.What menages a trois are formed in the metaverse and by whom speaks volumes about metaverse convsersationalists.And not always in favorable terms.
So let me try and change the topic by asking High_Arka a question.Do you think that social psychologists can get any insight into the transformation of story characters into "Gods" (e.g. the Greek or Hindu pantheons) from the way in which present-day teenagers actually start to dress like and act like the characters in their latest favorite action movie?(Or for that matter, the way in which adults did the same when the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" was still playing at 6th and 4th ?
what's going on with the actual cell biology - HEART DISEASEDr. Caldwell Esselstyn interview with the Huffington Post:http://www.heartattackproof.com/huffpost.htmLinks to a number of articles in the professional and popular press by Esselstyn - see especially the first one, "Is the Present Therapy for Coronary Artery Disease the Radical Mastectomy of the Twenty-First Century?" from the American Journal of Cardiology, 2010:http://www.heartattackproof.com/articles.htm
the way in which present-day teenagers actually start to dress like and act like the characters in their latest favorite action moviefortuitously, i happen to have this lying aroundFINDING A WAY PAST DESTRUCTIONOver at some other blog, a couple of us (big picture, deep thought kind of guys, with a tendency to overdo the modesty and helpfulness) were talking about... the economist Kenneth Boulding ... a brilliant guy ... his spouse Elise ... it is a small little blurgworld indeed.Elise Boulding wrote, in 1995, "Fred Polak was one of the first thinkers to call attention to the atrophy of our capacity to visualize a wholly different future. His Image for the Future (1953) was written for a Europe paralyzed by the experience of World War II. According to Polak, the human capacity to create mental images of the 'totally other' - that which has never been experienced or recorded - is the key dynamic of history. At every level of awareness, from the individual to the macrosocietal, imagery is continuously generated about the not-yet. Such imagery inspires our intentions, which then move us purposefully forward. Through daily choices of action, individuals, families, enterprises, communities, and nations move toward that which they imagine to be a desirable tomorrow."Polak points out, however, that historically alternating waves of optimism and pessimism about reality roll through time, as do alternative views about the end of the world. Sometimes humans are seen as partners with God or Nature, other times as helpless objects of supernatural action. In Polak's reading of history, optimism about reality combined with a utopian sense of human empowerment set in motion a powerful dynamic. Utopian optimism has characterized the Western worldview of recent centuries - but not of the last few decades. In eras when pessimism combines with a sense of cosmic helplessness, the quality of human intentionality declines and, with it, the quality of imagery of the not-yet. Societies in that condition live bounded by the present, with no social dynamic for change available to them. This is our situation in the post-World War II Western world."My own lifetime of 75 years, and my reading of history, has shown me over and over again that no matter how bad things are, the human race has been there before - been there, and found a way past destruction. It is finding the way past destruction that makes imaging so important."For a limited time only, through a combination of circumstances that will not be repeated, you can download without charge Elise Boulding's translation and abridgement of Polak's book, albeit with frequent minor misspellings due to the OCR process.http://en.laprospective.fr/dyn/anglais/memoire/the-image-of-the-future.pdf Labels: big picture, deep thought, future
the phrase "dumb-accident god of evolution" betrays a magnificently arrogant stupidity.
Kind of related, Mr. Charley, but kind of not also. I was asking an entirely non-teleological quesrion, whereas your response was entirely teleological and therefore more inappropriate than not.Why do you feel the need to think in teleological terms? Rake the sand, little grasshopper - rake the sand ... you'll feel a lot better ...
no puppylander @ 8:53 - not magnificent arrogance ... just another asshole trying for the sine qua non of "brittleness" which the lumpenproletariat here consider to be the hallmark of a good respondent
EL - i fart in the general direction of your teleological/non-teleological distinctionwe are all familiar with the Harvard Law of Animal Behavior"Under carefully controlled experimental conditions, the organism does what it damn well pleases"of course, this needs further unpacking, and Polak provides this by discussing how human organisms are affected not only by the experimental conditions around them, but the pictures in their heads of themselves and how they sense themselves as relating to life, the universe, and everythingthis relates to adolescents playing dress-up, and other psychosocial phenomena as wellcf. "Almost Cut My Hair", Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Live Wembley 1974http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mCKLt7A6sA
"this relates to adolescents playing dress-up, and other psychosocial phenomena as well"yes it does, MC, but not to the question of whether the incorporation of story into pseudo-reality can tell us anything about the transmogrification of story-book characters into "gods" ...(which is the question I asked in my post ...)
wow. he really is carrying on conversations with himself.
ignonny@10:27 - And you are who?Javert Jr?Suggest you find a better role-model, twit-little.(You do want to better yourself, don't you?)
Yes, but who's charley's hero? On Mount IOZ, Zeus is suffering from cocaine exhaustion under Dionysos' chair, unseen for months, while a large cast of androgynous, flaccid satyrs snicker that Demeter and Hestia are aspects of the same bear-demigod spawned the last time the great lightning hurler mounted Hermes.
Write it, High)Arka!Really - write it!I gar-on-tee it'll get produced.What a melange! Brilliant, just brilliant.
I've read about how all of those poor 19th century farmers whose diet consisted of meat, dairy and vegetables - cooked in lard - all suffered from epidemic diabetes and heart disease...
yes lucid, and sailors without oranges got scurvy.What's your point?
The same powerful, learned institutions that pushed the astounding health benefits and economic necessity of chemical food are now pushing the astounding health benefits and economic necessity of plant-based. Go buy an Obama before the last one is gone. Peace prize guaranteed. Sugar becomes splenda, butter becomes transy margarine, chicken and potatoes and green beans and apple pie becomes B12 shots. Just like the roly poly Wonka-devouring diabetes hordes of the last time around, you skinny little plant effers are going to (continue to) develop your own nasty afflictions. Given the extended horrors of industrial cancer v. the sudden death of old-style heart attacks, I'd put your money on something a similar degree more expensive, lasting and painful. Worst part is, when this one sits down with their children to explain why the growing synthpure movement is just more of the same, they're going to hit me with studies and snicker, and it's going to sound and feel just like the last time.
late morning , oH , everythi'gs going as planned , ar'k, " .. suffering from cocaine exhaustion under a chair " , YAAa / , and thanks for the almost cut my hair mention charley , but too much of american props of the other ariel played by a girl .. ., now off to the loo .. .
I shaved my head last night Anne... Getting a little to warm in NYC. I was getting scraggily too.
High Arka@10:41So it's true! Gods can give birth through the anus.
who's charley's hero?with regard to advocacy of plant-based nutrition - i most admire john mcdougall, i guess, also caldwell esselstyn, colin campbell, neal barnardand whom do you admire, h-a?
same reason of why lucid .. . , the pooling of humid is a little different here though .. .
My point is that these are modern diseases, which I believe are caused by the increased inflammation in our bodies due to the vast increase in vegetable based fats/oils [specifically omega 6 PUFA's] and a decrease in dietary saturated fat. And just like the data in the Framingham study doesn't actually support the conclusion that dietary cholesterol causes heart disease, pretty much every other dietary study doesn't bear out any conclusions - and they can't, by design. The conclusions are simply the projections of the medical establishment, manipulating data so that it says something. What we need to do is look at how these dietary changes affect the immune system on a cellular level because I believe these are just the same types of auto-immune reactions that we see with RA, Lupus, asthma and other modern auto-immune diseases that have become epidemic. Every body reacts differently to these phenomena [largely due to genetics] & will thus manifest those reactions in a different manner. But I firmly believe they have the same root cause.
And I'll give you a personal experience reason that lead me down this path. I have celiac disease. It's an auto-immune disease in which the immune system attacks the cilia in the small intestine when the gluten protein is present, resulting in a host of different symptoms. Though it is a genetic disease, celiac didn't really manifest on a widescale level until the last 40 years. While one might contend that the increase in gluten based products in processed foods, such as MSG, modified food starch, etc. might be the culprit, given the preponderance of wheat flour in historical diets, I just don't see it.Through over a decade of reading studies on Pubmed & elsewhere - and then going into other fields like exobiology, historical immunology, etc., I've come to the conclusion that it's our immune systems that are changing. And the reason we can't see this is that our models of immune system function are still based on a DNA centric model of cell organization - something that has already been disproven by the completion of the human genome project [and something already challenged years earlier by the work of McClintock].
lu cid, it's also the gluttony of gluten beyond your suggest here
john mcdougall writes on celiac diseasehttp://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/sept/050900celiac.htm
Paragraph 2 is entirely unfounded and inane [and misunderstands the condition entirely - it's not an 'intolerance' which is an entirely different thing that also happens, it's a genetic auto-immune disease], otherwise there ain't nothing new in that article. And I've been on a gluten free diet for 15 years.
back to ar ka's de light ful of snippet at 10,41 again, does anyone else have visions of a small bear every time lucid speaks ?
I gotta tell you guys something - the only thing that's worse than posting about your own diseases on the web is posting about close relatives who've died ...I mean - what is this - the old ladies' section of Beth Israel?Let me tell you about MY operation ... it was MUCH worse than yours ...sorry lucid but you're really way out of line here ...not that you're the only guilty party - anne has been hinting about something darkly and mysteriously wrong with her insides for months now ...
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